Branding Expert Stephanie Powell Shares Her Famous 5X5 Method!



Sat, 7/4 11:37AM • 52:48 



Julio, Stephanie 


Julio  00:00 

Hey guys. So today on the podcast, we have brand strategist experts, Stephanie pal, we're going to cover what branding strategy is, why it's important for startups, what strategy you can use today, plus a hilarious story about an AC company in Dallas, whose brand strategy is telling you how hot your wife is. Stay tuned. So, Stephanie, of course, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. Let's start off with a couple of common questions. Let's start with the very first one, which is what is a branding strategy? And what is it not? 


Stephanie  00:32 

Yeah. So super excited to actually be here today. So, thank you for that. So, I'm a branding strategy expert. To answer your question I'm actually going to start with what it's not. What it's not first and foremost, it's not just a few haphazard ideas that were thrown around mixed with a logo, right? That's just a few haphazard ideas and a logo. Yeah. And it's also not a marketing plan. Essentially, what your brand strategy the whole goal is it to define your brand's objective, and all the different tools that are going to help you get there. So, we're talking about things like being able to answer questions such as, who do you serve? And what problem do you solve? How do you do it differently? What does your brand stand for? Believe in? What are those core values? Why should your clients trust you? Who's your competition? How do you want them to feel? answering those types of questions and enable to have those answers? That's when you begin to really dig into what the actual brand strategy is because you're able to go okay, if I know that, my I am serving moms over the age of 40 with two kiddos, and I want them to feel a sense of peace because they're overwhelmed. Well, now you even know the objective, right? You know where you want to get to. So it's kind of like reverse engineering to make sure that all the different actions and steps you're taking leading up to that are going to match and want to help get you further down the line to that end objective, rather than doing something that's going to set you back confuse your audience or what have you. 


Julio  02:06 

Yeah. So, you actually hit on something that I kind of wants to talk about, which is you said it's different than marketing. And that was one of the Another common question is like when it comes to branding strategy, how do you feel like it's different than general marketing? So, I think a lot of people get stuck on the idea that a strategy is just going to be anything like Facebook ads, and that about excuses me, that's about the extent of their strategy and their planning is just, that's where I'm going to go. And eventually, just by magically putting out an ad, I'm going to get $100,000 and 100,000 followers. 


Stephanie  02:40 

Yeah, yeah, no, and it's funny that you bring that up because that's actually one of my like, it's gonna be a topic I have on my Instagram on Fridays, I do fight me Fridays, and I take either a commonly held belief if I have a controversial opinion about something, and that's one of the ones I'm going to be doing is that brands And marketing are not the same. They're just and so and I do understand a lot of people, they do kind of lump them together. And I think usually that just comes from just not knowing the difference, rather than, you know, trying to intentionally upset brand strategists and marketers alike. Um, so essentially what you're looking at is, branding is who you are, right? Again, it's about those values, and who you serve, what problem you solve. And marketing is the how that's how you're going to create awareness and how you're going to get that message delivered. So when you're looking at brand strategy, and I think that's another reason sometimes the to get overlapped in people's minds, is because you hear marketing strategy, your business strategy, you hear brand strategy. And really, I mean, a strategy is just a plan to get you to an end goal. And so that applies differently based on what we're talking about. So your branding strategy is going to center again around who you are and who you serve, but your marketing strategy, that's when we're talking about things like SEO, social media marketing, paid marketing, Click Funnels, ads, all those things. That's marketing, right? That's the vehicle to get the message delivered to the people you want to get it delivered to. And so and the reason I think it's just so crucial to know the difference is that a lot of times what we see is, like, for example, if you just started a business and you want to brand, I don't want anyone to think that if they hire a brand strategist or brand designer, that they're going to get a marketing expert, too, right? You know, there are two very different vehicles and it doesn't mean that one can't help you with the other. In fact, branding is part of your marketing strategy. So just as a little side note, branding comes first branding has to come before the marketing because again, you that's a part of your marketing strategy. And really, the only similarity I feel like is the overlap between the two. And they do overlap here and it's when it comes to your visuals and things and then your brand identity I mean, we've all heard a photo is worth 1000 words. And so, whether it's a photo that you're using in your post, it's your actual visual logo, and any images or graphics that you're using, that's part of your branding. But that's also part of your marketing, right? Because we're posting things that aren't catching people's attention, then we're not even really giving them the opportunity to learn about our brand and learn who we are. And the last thing I'll say about that is you need both your marketing to be on point, but if your brand doesn't connect with the right people, it doesn't matter. And your branding could be on point. But if you're not getting the message delivered to the right people in the right way, and again, it really doesn't matter. 


Julio  05:45 

Yeah. And I think I'm actually gonna bring up kind of two points that you talked about was the first being that branding comes first. I think that's something that even we've struggled with throughout the years. We weren't sure what our identities were. We weren't sure exactly who we were trying Getting we weren't sure exactly. Because we wanted to. And I think a lot of people fall into this trap, we wanted to talk to everybody. Because in our minds, we're like, the more people we can talk to, the more people we can sell to, right. But the problem is that old adage of if you talk to everybody, you're talking to nobody, especially when it comes to copywriting, at least, you know, if you're doing some sort of, I don't know, some sort of stage performance or you're selling face to face. I at least can use your body language, your facial expressions, I can switch things around pretty quickly. I mean, I'm sure I don't know if you've ever done this before. But like even like what we're talking about, if I put this in some sort of transcriber app, by the time we get done even with like a 30-minute podcast, like it's like 18 pages worth of like single space, you know, text, and it's because it goes so quickly when you're talking right but when you're doing your copy, I mean, you have like, you know, five to 10 seconds to grab a reader's attention, grab them with a hook See, you know, they want to know what's in it for them, they want to know what they're going to learn. And you and they need to be able to connect with you in that sense in both the actual pictures and videos that you're putting out, as well as the text behind it. And I think text and copywriting and all that is also a, a part of branding that a lot of people don't even think about, you know, they think okay, branding is just visual. So, let me get a pretty logo. Let me get, you know, gold and blue, my backgrounds everywhere. And that's all I'm going to do. And but they didn't they, and again, we fall into this trap. You end up writing all these different ads and these blogs and things like that, and some have emojis and some don't. Some are super funny and quirky, and others are really serious and motivational, and like it becomes this hard thing to navigate. Which actually brings me to my second point, which is when it comes to establishing your brand. How do you know whether you should be like how do you know how to be cohesive because I think that's another thing, that least I struggle with, is like I have these different personalities, right? And there are some days when I'm a little more quirky than others, and some days where I'm just like, I just need to get this damn email, you know, written and I'm just out, I don't care, I'm done for the day, something, you know, whatever's going on in my head. It's just not working for me. And so I think there's an inconsistency. There are some days I'm, I see this Canva template, and I'm super like, oh, man, that's beautiful. That's awesome. And I think that would really look great on our ID. But it doesn't really match any of the other formattings or doesn't really match any of the other color schemes or whatever, you know. So like, how do you tell people like to stay away from that and try to force a more cohesive, more cohesive message? 


Stephanie  08:50 

Yeah. So a couple of things. I'm going to work backward a little bit just on your first point. You know, everyone I think falls into that trap of but I want to help everyone or what I can do, Kate serves everyone, right? And that's such a normal thought. And it's not a bad line of thought. But you're right. If you you're trying to serve everyone, you're going to hit no one. And so what I always tell people to think about it as and I think, again, we all struggle with, you know, whether you want to say niche, whatever we all struggle with focusing down. And there's also that fear, right? Like, okay, there's only focus on this group of people, then I'm going to miss all these other opportunities. And what I like to tell people is, if you think about it in terms of archery, when you fire a bow at a target, you're aiming for the bullseye. Right now, you might hit the outer rings, and that's okay. But to hit the outer rings, to even have a chance of hitting the outer rings, you still have to aim for the bullseye. you aim for that outer ring; you might not hit anything. And branding and messaging are the same way just because I target a specific group of people, but doesn't mean I won't serve folks that fall outside that niche. It just means that I'm targeting the other thing that I will say about focusing is that I think it's super important when you're creating your brand or if you're revamping it, and you're looking at who you serve, I think sometimes. And I would consider it a little bit of a mistake, we put a lot of emphasis on the demographic traits of our audience. Yeah. And while that may matter, it doesn't have to, and my audience is a perfect example of that. I serve men and women; my age range is like 25 to 65. Do you know what I mean? It's everything once it important, though, is looking at their pain points. That's the key right there. That's your common thread. Right? What is it that you're addressing? what problem are you solving? And how does it matter the kind of in the same way to all these people, right? And then I also wanted to touch base I'm so glad that you brought up about, you know, thinking that brand can just be visual. You're so right in the Since that having a brand voice and tone that's part of your brand, how do I want my brand to sound? And you really think of your brand as a person because in essence, it is. And so when you're writing, how do you want it to sound and come across? What are certain brand words that you know you're going to use all the time? Right? And so that that's a really important piece of the brand. And so I'm really glad that you mentioned that. And then as far as kind of how to overcome brand and consistencies, or stay away from them. One of my favorite segments, I mean, it's a little bit of a shock and awe statement. But one of my favorite things to tell people is if you want to try and make sure you're being consistent in your branding, then you have to understand and embrace the fact that your brand is not about you. Okay, your brand, it's a part of you, right, but your brand is about the people you're trying to serve. So it doesn't matter if my favorite colors are black and gray, which they happen to be. The point is that are now using eating better example if I want my audience to feel calm, and I want them to trust me, and I want them to feel a sense of peace, and my favorite colors are black and hot pink. That doesn't work. Right? That there's there's a whole brand of psychology that's in color psychology. So I think that that is the way that we first tackle those inconsistencies is when we're looking at something or thinking about writing something. It's taking a step back and going, am I writing this is me a human being? Or am I writing or presenting? This is my brand, right? And when you're doing it as your brand, it's not about what you do and doesn't like, it's about what your audience likes, what do they need to hear? How do they need to hear it? What do they need to see how are they going to connect with you, and if you can always frame it within that, that helps kill a lot of those inconsistencies. 


Julio  13:02 

So yeah. So going back to kind of what you were saying, with our company, you know, when I came on that's sort of again no telling you that that's sort of an issue we've even had worth with our branding is trying to sell to everybody and do everything and, and I think a big thing for me was trying to be the smartest guy in the room like I had so much corporate sales experience that I was just like, I must be just as good if not better than fill in the blank, you know, a Gary Vee whoever, you know, like, in my mind, anyway, I was like, I have awards, I've sold millions of dollar's worth of inventory. I've had teams that have done 10 times that so, therefore, I must know what I'm talking about. And I think to some extent, that might be true, but I needed to get away from again like we were just referring to like, if I can talk one on one to somebody, that's a totally different beast than trying to write a single paragraph for one individual to read all the way through and then click through to the call to action, and then have a consistent theme so I'm not there to actually walk them through Everything and engage with them physically and say, Hey, you know what, what are some objections you have? What are some questions you have, you know, like, I have to assume that they're going to allow themselves to go into the sales funnel, you know, and I think that was a big issue that we had, because even what you're referring to is like, in our initial course, we have an entire section for branding? And we have color psychology and we have all these other things elements to it. And, and one thing that I did as a sales manager is I had broken things down into like four basic personality groups. And I say the exact same thing and that was something I even when we had our latest webinar, we said the same thing was like because we titled it for extra sales and the idea of being by learning how to speak to these four personality types like demographics, although, yes, are important to some extent. They're not the end all be all, you know. And so my idea was, sell more to your personality. You A few people like emojis and all that stuff, it doesn't really matter if somebody is 50 or somebody 25 you can still connect to them in that sense, right? Male or female, but as we were going through it, well now, you know, I still find that to be true, but I do personally add a little more emphasis to the actual demographic itself, because I'm like, some this the way I, I figured it. And I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, or if you have a difference of opinion, but the way I was kind of looking at it was like, a customer avatar is. It is important, but for a long time I was, I disregarded it almost completely, because of the idea of the personality, right. But I realized that for me anyway, at least the way I'm looking at it is customer avatar is actually important. Not necessarily because it's just who you're selling to, but it's about the stories you can tell them, you know, and like the relevancy behind those stories. So like, I used to scoff at people that would be like Well, my person, you know, drives a minivan and blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And I'm like, well, in my mind, I was like, That's the dumbest. I don't care if they drive a minivan, but I wasn't thinking about how I was thinking about it from a sales face to face standpoint. Because then I can easily bypass it, or I can mention it or you know, like, it doesn't even bother me or clicks to me that that would be something that's a talking point. But then I was as I was going through it, I was kind of realizing, like, Hey, this is really about the content that I can also produce, you know, but by having relevant talking points about when my parents owned a minivan, or when I wanted to buy a minivan, or I can take a picture of a minivan and be like, Hey, you know, like, thinking about getting a Tesla minivan or you know, like whatever it's, you know, or a Tesla versus this minivan. I may not be the best representative market for those certain points, but just the fact that my market does Largely fall into those categories or know about those categories have had experience in them, I'm able to become more relevant to them if that makes any sense. Yeah. 


Stephanie  17:11 

And I think you're, I think you're dead on and I think that um, you know, even when I started as a brand strategist, you know, this really in-depth, you know, ICA, decide your customer Avatar and giving it like a name and age and the full story. You know, I was like true. But I think one of the things that you said that's so key and critical is that when you do the work to really develop their story, it's the stories then you can tell them. And so a perfect example when you talk about if your, if your people drive minivans, then there's a really good chance that if you create a piece of copy that goes, I get it. The last thing you know, like let's say it's some kind of a car cleaning thing, like the last thing you want to do on the weekend, is find the Cheetos that your kids throw in the floorboard of your minivan. You know Started able to go I think I know this person and it's really, it's so much about stepping into their shoes. Yeah. And that's one of the big things that I talk about been talking about it a lot recently is this idea of you have to know what language to speak. Sure, you can't speak your language and expect to reach someone who's speaking a completely different language, you get to meet them where they're at. And I think it's so hard when we have something of value. We know what that person needs, but that's not what it's about either. Sure, it's about selling them what they want, and giving them what they need. And so their thought process, like, again, for me, somebody's probably not thinking, I need to redefine my brand strategy. And I think I need to rebrand because I think that my brand is not speaking to the right people. That's not their thought process. their thought process is, why am I not selling out? Right? Why am I not booking the right kinds of clients? Yeah, so until I know that story, I can't. And again, you're absolutely right, that copies got to catch them really quick. And if I don't know their story, I need to be able to repeat what's in their head back to them. Right. Like they go. I was literally just talking about this the other day; how does she know that? You know, and so that's Yeah, I agree. I think those ideal client avatars are just crucial. And I think taking the time on the front end to give them that story, you will start to be able to see life through their eyes and in their shoes, even though it's a fictional character because the more detail you give, the more it brings it to life, 


Julio  19:39 

right? I think for at least for me, something I try to keep in mind or think about when it comes to branding and the sort of messaging we're putting out there is like, if you keep it super General, you may gain a, you're gonna gain a general following, right. But if you keep it specific to and relevant to your audience, and you Truly, even if it's highlighting a certain aspect of you, like I was saying before, like, how do you keep it consistent? Because, you know, we all have a little bit of everything, you know. But I think it's about highlighting some of the things that you really want to present as it Here's what I mean by this as an example is, if you want to have that cult-like following, you know, think of comedians think of, like musicians, the both of those people are people that are on stage, that have to deal with rejection in real-time, if they you know, and at the same time, like, whenever they do blow up, suddenly, they have, you know, hundreds of thousands or millions of followers and they're making a ton of money even though they're not the, you know, Nirvana of the world. They can, they're still touring and they're still going on stage and they're still selling on arenas, and they're still making millions and, and they don't, it doesn't, you don't need to speak to, you know, 2 million people. You just need to know who your audience is. And then really connect. I think, one I don't know if you listen to like, hip hop and stuff at all, but there is a hip-hop artist called NF. And he does. Like, a lot of his songs are based on, like mental health, you know, and I gotta admittedly like, when I listen to it, a lot of it resonates with me. I had a really rough upbringing. And so like, whenever I'm listening to it, I don't know just there's a connection and I become more and more of a fan. Like as I listen, and there are so many things that I'm just like, oh, man, I didn't even realize that. I felt that way. When I was younger, I felt this I feel this way today about you know, feeling like you know, faking it till you make it and how that doesn't necessarily correlate with me because, you know, like, there are so many things that he says that in my mind, just connect with and it makes me go like, I really want to follow this guy. I want to listen to everything he puts out. And that was one of the recent ones. I was listening to I can't remember. I think it's called a therapy session. And one of the parts there's a little boy and the idea behind it was that the boy You know, like, in the beginning, scenes, you can see like, he was going to cut himself and things like that. And he was talking to NF and he's like, Hey, you know, you don't know me, but I feel like you know me better than anybody else. You know, like, and it's that sort of connection, right? And his is a little different from this music and stuff. But the idea is the same I think we get so caught up in the idea of like, bro marketing, like all these old schools, Carnegie tactics of like, you know, selling and like wearing your tie and tucking your shirt and Hello, ma'am. And yes, sir. And that we don't allow ourselves to really connect with our audience because we're so desperate to be seen as the authority figure and to want praise and stuff and yet, all around us, we're seeing people who tell You know, fart jokes and things like that. And they have a huge following. And they're making tons of money. Because they know their audience. They liked the idea that their audience likes the idea that they can have a beer with this person. And they think of them as a friend and like they're going to be fun and relevant to their lives. Even if it doesn't speak to everybody. You don't mean? 


Stephanie  23:20 

Yeah, no, I love that. And it's a PS as a side note, I need to go listen to more of an F because one of my most favorite songs just in general, is his song. Wait. Yeah, yeah. all that fun. Anyway, no, I totally agree with you. I think you're right on point. And I also too, you know, one of the things that and even I have to continue to give myself permission to lean into this more and more, but the reality is that once you're really like honing in and you're allowing that radical authenticity to take hold, and you are genuinely you're talking to your people, and more specifically, that one person The reality is that, as you mentioned, like with the comedian's, you're going to lose followers, right? That's what's supposed to happen. Exactly especially should be polarizing. You either want to bring people in because they're your tribe, or you want to weed them out. You don't need anybody in that circle. That's not for you, and you're not for everybody. And they're not always for you. And so get those people out at the beginning, which sounds like a really negative kind of mean thing. But it's not, you know, again, if we just take it back to musical artists, not everyone loves every genre. 


Julio  24:34 

That's okay. Right? 


Stephanie  24:36 

You find the ones that you love, and I love that you brought music into it, because I think if we all think about whatever song it is, or whatever handful of songs we can listen to on repeat forever. There, I guarantee you I would be willing to say 99% on 100% of the time, there is an emotional connection. You feel like that song was written for your life. 


Julio  24:58 

Exactly. Right or that right? That time period even. 


Stephanie  25:01 

Yeah, and that's the whole exit. Yeah, exactly. And that's the whole point is forming those emotional connections and as business owners creating that, and what I think is so important to emphasize here too, is that we talk a lot about the know like and trust factor and that's a very real thing. But that needs to be authentic. Not we're not, I don't participate in a lot of sales tactics, there are a lot of things I don't do because it just feels kind of shitty to me. Like, I don't like it when people do that to me, right? Like, just come at me with what you got, and if it's a good fit great, and if not, oh, well, sure, um, you know, but it's about connecting with them truly not false connections, not surface level, because the reality is that our consumers today are more informed than they ever have been. And they have more choices than they've ever had before. Right and I guarantee you, if you're trying to create a false connection or if you're presenting it, as we believe in this, this and this and you don't really, you're going to get found out and that's going to hurt you so much more than if you would just never been discovered at all. 


Julio  26:13 

Right? And actually, bringing up a point to that, like I was actually thinking about this the other day, it's I take I do like little nightly walks to kind of think about life and content and blah, blah, blah, right. And so I was listening to this was like maybe three or four nights ago sitting and listening to NF again, while I was walking, he just happened to pop in on the playlist. And there was one song that I've listened to a bunch of times, but it never this one thing just connected in that one specific way and this one specific instance. It was like a part of his course where he was saying in order to determine what the song was called, but anyway, that's not really the point. He said in order to love you have to give love to get love. You have to give love essentially right and it made me think about it. He ended up in the chorus talking about the same thing about trust. And then for some reason, again, in that one specific time, my mind connected the know, like trust factor. And I was like, Okay, here's something that I don't think anybody ever really talks about is if I add his lyrics to that, and then for me anyway, it made total sense. I was like, it's not just about, can I establish an electronic factor for this person? But how do I do that part of the way I can do that is not just showing my expertise. It's, it's, again, having that more emotional connection, because, in order for them to know me, I need to know them. In order for them to trust me, I need to trust them, I need to be able to talk about, you know, abuses that I had when I was a kid or whatever on a podcast and let them know, like my pain and my struggle and my identity crisis and all these other things. And of course, all the good things too, right being a father and the funny things that happen in that regard or being a husband the funny things that happened in that regard, and if I don't allow them to ever be Get into my head. And I and I close that off and I close up my heart and all that and I just, I folk, I forced this, like, we're all here for a business meeting, you know, very corporate handshake, you know, no one's buying from me, because no one can connect to me. I'm just another Joe Schmo on Facebook, that's annoying them going, like, Hey, stop, look at me, you know, buy my stuff. Do you know what I mean? 


Stephanie  28:24 

No, you're right. No, you're absolutely right. And that's the whole thing too, is that you know, people don't buy from businesses or brands they buy from people, right? And they buy we want to buy from people and if we're gonna part with our hard-earned money, we want to make sure it's going into the pockets of someone to the best of our ability that shares our values, you know, for the same reason that there are people we won't buy from but if you won't buy from somebody, I guarantee you it's a value issue. Right? And, you know, it's something that you know, you can't support that thing. And I think you just touch on a great point of just, dude, just fucking be human. Like, just be human and understand that not everybody is gonna Like what? Like what that thing is about you and screw those people they're not your people anyway right you know, but that's yeah just being human and because we all want to know that we're not alone and we all want to know that somebody else out there totally gets what we're going through and particularly when you're selling something to solve a problem whenever we can demonstrate that I'm not just selling you this to try to sell you something I'm selling you this because I genuinely know and believe it can help you and I know that and I believe that because I've been where you've been, and I get it, I get it. And just know I love that you do that. And I think that's a good note for everyone just allowing them to because you're right, you can't get to know them. If you don't want them to get to know you. That's how relationships work. And that that right their friends that's what selling is period. So is building relationships. There's no way around that exam, you know because that's not only how you get the first sale. That's how you get a repeat sale or if you're like a one-off thing. That's how you get those people to start being a free Salesforce for you people that can't stop talking about you because you've built that kind of a relationship with them. 


Julio  30:21 

Exactly. Yeah. And I think it's, you know, I mean, honestly, I think that's something that I bring up a lot too. And, to me, it's like, as you were saying, like, you know, selling is a relationship. It's not, it's not I mean, I honestly, I equate it to dating. A lot of times I'm just like, you don't want to just come off slimy and sleazy and like, I'm in it for one thing and one thing only and, you know, like, are we going home or not like, like, you want to engage with the person and you want to know who they are and their hopes and their dreams and that way you can hope you have the opportunity for a second date for a third date, you know, and up to eventually and I'm In this non crudely, it's possible to eventually close the deal as far as like what your personal end goal is, right? But if you're just so like, you know, I'm in this for, you know, a good time in a long time, like, you know, a lot of people are going to be swiping left on you, you know what I mean? 


Stephanie  31:16 

I have a really good friend and mentor who says almost the exact same thing. His name is Donnie Beaubien. And he details everybody all the time, you know, he's like, when you just, I mean, go at it and immediately ask for the sale. That's literally like walking up to somebody in a bar, and saying, hey, you want to ask, right? And like, you know, it's funny, because people are like, Whoa, he's a good thing, right? And he's right, like, how many of us ever, ever buy something when somebody calls you and says, I'm selling this or how many of us respond when someone slides into your DNS? And without even a Hey, how are you doing? 


Julio  31:57 

Right, and the one time you do get it you getting crabs. 


Julio  32:03 

So going kind of away from theory into actual implementation. I think we can pretty much talk. We know that branding affects everything. It affects, you know, sales and how people connect with you. I think we kind of covered all that, to some extent anyway, if you want to touch back on any of that, you certainly can. But for the people that are listening, like what, what sort of branding strategy? Can they start to try to implement or use in order to start seeing some results quicker as far as like, you know, who they are and what they want to  


Stephanie  32:39 

o? Yeah, so the thing that I always share whenever a question like that gets asked, it's actually part of my signature strategy method. So if you're listening, either grab a pen open up a notepad on your phone, or if you're driving just please don't do any of that just mark with a mark where the time is. Yeah, because What I'm going to give you essentially is this and this is actionable you can do it right now it's being able to answer five questions. It's what I call my five by five branding. And so the first question is, who are you? Pretty simple question. The second question is, what do you do? also a really simple question. Question three is, who do you serve? And I would challenge you to get as specific as it makes sense. Meaning, if demographics play into your market, then you need to include those if you only market to 25 to 30-year old's, and that's the only then you need to include that. And if it's more of psychographic traits, if it's about that person's hopes or fears or whatever, but you need to get as specific as you can. Don't just say, I serve females. And I'll give you like, another little note, a great thing you can do to help with that is play the What about the game? So if I say, Well, I serve women Okay, what about women Okay, you know who are single? Okay, what about women that are single? Okay, women that are single on call, you know, and you just keep playing that game until you get to a point where you're like, Okay, this is my person. Yeah. And so that's question three. Question four is what problem do you solve? And how do you do it differently? And the second part of that question is super crucial and key. Because whether you think there's something different about you or not, there is we were all mean, no one in the whole world will ever have the same skills and abilities that you do in that combination in this exact moment. Right. And so, you know, and here's the other thing, if you find out that you're not doing anything differently, then the challenges Okay, how can I enhance this for my people where it is different? And then the fifth question is, what should your customers or clients feel after they work with you or buy from you? And that feel word is super crucial? Because it's not about liking or not liking. It's about out, what do they feel? Do they feel educated? Do they feel relieved? Do they feel less overwhelmed? Do they feel healthier? It's those things. And so once you're able to get the five, answer those five questions answered, right, then you can take a look at that and start looking at what you're doing. And the easiest place to start is to start with either your website or your social media post. Yeah. And start going through those and start going and looking at like, you know, Ticket by section right? Don't kill yourself, and just go Okay, is this congruent with the answers that I've given to these two things match up? Right? And, and that to me, because that's not only one of the first steps, that's the most crucial step because we don't, I think it's really unfortunate. I mean, there's so much more of an awareness around branding than there ever has been before. But you know, unfortunately, wouldn't. When you become an entrepreneur, there is no entrepreneurial handbook. Right? Right. There are no eight steps one, two, and three. And unless you have, you're lucky to get a really good mentor, get into a really good group, no one sits down and tells you, hey, this thing that you're creating, you need to think about who it's for sure we create this thing. And it's wonderful, and it's great. But if you don't have the answers to those five questions. 


Julio  36:28 

Yeah, it's never going to get off the ground. The idea behind the avatar is not just at least in my opinion, is not just who they are, but who they want to be. Right. And so like, as I was listening to that, I think the five by five method really, really, really, really does a great job hitting on the who they are, and like how to start getting into that process. But I as I was writing all that down, I was thinking like, possibly a good addition to at least for our listeners, you don't have to actually obviously, add this to your thing, but was a You know, like, how do you date? What do you deem a success for them? You know, in other words like, so that gets them to the least to the future thinking of like, if I'm a coach, for example, and I'm doing all this stuff, you know, like I answered the, you know, who are they and I did all that stuff. And how should people feel when they get done with me on a call, but at the same time, I want them to call again, so or to get a book, another coaching call for $1,000 or whatever. So like, the feel is vital to that, because they're not going to do that if they hate me, right. But I also want to make sure that I know what, what should I expect as far as a result, you know, I need to know that I can actually help these people. And so like part of that, at least in my mind, is that I want to make sure that I'm able to say by the end of this call, or now that we're done. Here are all the steps we talked about. By the time we get back on a call next month, you should be making $500 a month edition Only by utilizing these steps, and you know, and if not, if you're implementing these things, and in a week or something, things aren't happening, you know, text me call me whatever. And we're going to try to figure out why, you know, because maybe something didn't follow through, we didn't quite think of something, if that makes sense? 


Stephanie  38:17 

It does. And so actually, where that comes into play, typically for me is, and so basically, what you're talking about is, you're talking about the transformation, right? You know, nine times out of 10, somebody buys something, they want some kind of a transformation. And so I think you're 1,000%, right? That's something where the only way that I tweak it differently is for me, that comes into play a little bit more, when we're actually talking about what you're selling, not just the brand, but the product or the offer, whatever that product or that offer is, you know, now that you know who you're talking to, and you can use all the right words and you know what their pain problem is, what's the transformation? What is buying x gonna do for me? Yeah, and you know, And then granted, if you're someone who only does one thing, then yeah, I totally agree with you. I think that question needs to be asked in the very, very beginning. Yeah, it might be a little you might offer to have several different offerings. But I do think that it's super crucial that you do include what you just said, regardless of where you included in the process. You are absolutely right, understanding who they want to be, and what transformation you're going to provide them. They're going to start at point A. And when they're done with you, they're going to get to point B and being able to clearly not just understand that for yourself, but articulate it to your people.  


Julio  39:37 

 Yeah. So just kind of get a little bit past the technical side of things. There was one question I wanted to ask and then I'm going to let you go is, when it comes to branding, what are some mistakes you've seen maybe funny mistakes or likely or just like mistakes that you make you slap your head and go like, Oh my god, I can't believe these people do that.


Stephanie  39:56 

So, unfortunately, and I'm away My original creative mentor Her name'sKeyshiaWhaley, she's in the Dallas area. She's amazeballs. And that's one of them that's really because I'm a self-taught designer, but that's really where I learned so much of it from in any time Keyshia and I were in the car, she's a friend as well, she would, she can't help but not she can't help but see Bing bad branding. And I feel like that kid from the movie The Sixth Sense like I see bad branding. I see it everywhere and I can't fucking un-see it And so for me, whether it's just okay, like, here's you know, here's an example and I want to protect the innocent, I will not name names, okay. But there's a brand that I have worked with where they want their people to feel like cared for and nurtured in the sense of relief. And the reason we stopped working together is that they would not let go of their color palette of red, orange, and yellow. I'm like, brah that's fire. Like, because it was also in a gradient. That's what killed me, right is red to orange to yellow. And I'm like, you are literally fire colors. Sure. And but that's, that's a case of just someone, every piece of bad branding I've ever found is one of two things. It's either someone who can't get past themselves and realize that shifts not about you, right? Or they just really don't know any better and they just hire the cheapest version. I've seen bad branding, where it's, these are the most entertaining to me. Uh, one of the tips that I give designers is to make sure that when you create a logo, you need to zoom way in so that like if it was going to be on a 12 by 12 banner. Yeah, you see it and you need to zoom way out. Yeah, because I can't tell you how many things, I've come across wrong. Like, hey, you know that that looks like a penis, right? Okay, you know that that looks like this word. Right? Right. And so fun because I can't unsee it. And of course, you know, I've seen and I've had clients that I mean, they just turned purple, they're so embarrassed. And they're like, I never saw that. And now I can't unsee it. Right, which really is not the client's fault. That's really the designer, but, you know, I think it's just, yeah, it's usually pretty amusing. Or the other side of that is, it's just crazy generic. Yeah, and the danger with that is no and that's what you see a lot when you see a mobile advertisement, so especially for anything that's like, repair, landscaping, like, you know, they're a moving Billboard. Right. And I've seen ridiculous ones, but the ridiculous ones get remembered, right? Yeah, you know what I mean? Like it and I can't think of one now. I wish I could. But if I'm driving by and I see something that's just crazy. Yeah, actually, I here's a perfect example in depth. There is a billboard. And it's for an AC Repair Company. But all the billboard says is your wife is hot? And it's brilliant. Right? Exactly. Everyone knows who the AC company is. Right? You know, but, ya know, I can't I see bad branding everywhere and it hurts my head. 


Julio  43:22 

 Yeah. And just that in and of itself, I think is just real quick-hitting back to what we were talking about. I mean, that is funny. Its eye-catching that Billboard and at the same time, you can clearly see that they are understanding to some extent their personal demographics, or how they view it right? Like, they're going okay. We're probably going to be talking to a guy we're probably going to be talking about. He might, if he has air conditioners and he needs repairs, it might be an older guy, so his wife might be staying at home or you know like there's so many other factors to it. That's just like he wants to make sure his wife's taken care of like, it's there. Obviously not speaking directly to the wife on this by saying your wife is hot, although she might appreciate it and appreciate the humor, but they're there, they know who they're targeting. So I would say that you know, even their ads on Facebook are probably going to be largely, you know, 80% targeting towards guys. And they might have a secondary ad that has women and family values and like, you know, protect your kids and all these other things.  


Stephanie  44:25 

That's another perfect example of something that we talked about earlier. Right when I was talking about the aiming for the bull's eye. Right, right. Right. They're targeting and they're also to they're probably targeting the middle class. Sure. A Million Dollar CEO is not going to respond to a billboard-like right, stereotypically, yeah, but like, again, talking about hitting the bull's eye. They're not targeting someone like me that damn it if I'm in Dallas, and my C goes out, that's what I'm gonna hire because that shit was funny, right? They're still gonna hit me. Yeah, even though they weren't targeting me and that's just again, your that's a brilliant example. have everything you just stated in so many of the things that we've talked about. And it was so freaking simple. 

Julio  45:07 

You know, and kind of I made I did make a little note because I've been writing down notes and stuff as we've been going and trying to think of where I saw I think it might have been on Reddit or something. They were talking about archery, and it just reminded me when you were talking about it is like, the difference between a bullseye like they had a woman shoot, I'm assuming she was like an Olympic champion or something. And she hit like, dead center Bullseye, right. And then like, on that same camera angle, they were just like, they'd like moved her arm up, like literally a millimeter, like nothing like it seemed insignificant. And when she did it, she got like, on the outside ring, like just that little thing, you know, and it's amazing, obviously, from the human technical standpoint that she can through repetition and perfection and, and practice she's been able to figure out exactly to the millimeter where her hand needs to be and how far to extend and all these other things, right? That's obviously an amazing thing from a human standpoint. But if we correlate that to business, I think a lot of people, they say I have to you know, pick my brand or my brand strategy and run with it forever and I think you do need time to test and to see how well you're doing. And of course, if you're doing everything you said with the five by five method and trying to really understand who you are and allowing yourself to be consistently who you are, I think you're going to have a great brand strategy, to begin with, but there is a there is something to be said about pruning about you know, testing antrying to hone in and just like that lady you know, she that millimeter difference was the difference between getting a couple of points and hitting a bull's eye right like and it's just like that like she would never have known if she wasn't experimenting literally millimeter by millimeter. You know, how does this Shot effect this, you know, I mean, it's sort of the same idea with your branding strategy. 


Stephanie  47:04 

I think you bring up a really just a really crucial point that you know, for anyone listening, especially if you're new, you know, I need you to grab hold of the concept right now that your brand, you're going to do a rebrand at some point, right? Or maybe it's even a brand refresh. And not only is that not a bad thing, it's, it's a good thing because it means you're growing, right? And it means that you're continuing to adapt and to change. I have rebranded twice, and I've been in business for less than three years and I rebranded twice Sure and granted the first time because I did what everybody did, right, I picked a logo, I wanna switch colors I wanted and it just wasn't right. And then you know, and ever since then, I would say every branded like two and a quarter because I've in the last like three months, I started adding some additional colors into my palette because it was missing something and that's just something that you continue to hone in on. And so I agree with you like just evaluating that and understanding that even Coca Cola, which is always one of the brands has talked about when you want to talk about the most successful brands in the world. Yeah. Coca Cola has gone through so many rebrands. And as a little note of encouragement to everyone, they've also gone through some massive fails. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Like, they really had they've gone through some major flops, and people are like, what are you doing? Yeah, you know, but I just, yeah, you're going to tweak and you're going to hone and that's good. It's good to grow. It's good to you know, the only caveat I would say to that is, make sure you do it again as you said, it's a small increment. Yeah. Well, I try to maintain some consistency. And if you feel like it's not working, just give it a little bit of time. Because if you change things up too frequently, you're never going to know what's working and what's not. And you'll never know how to evaluate and tweak from that point forward. 


Julio  48:53 

Yeah, I don't know if you saw that. Actually. I think it was just yesterday, I posted a little meme thing. It was a Cartman from South Park and I put like whenever you're rebranding, it was my little caption, but it's like operation can't possibly fail a second time. And I was like that's that feels so right when it comes to rebranding and like the struggles that you have, but I think again like you were just referring to is like it's those incremental changes because if you that's with anything testing right like we've mentioned archery that millimeter difference like if she just went from you know, let me do it at this 45-degree angle to let me do it at this you know, 20-degree angle she's never going to find the sweet spot if she's constantly going from one extreme to another right it's about small changes and that also allows you to stay allows your, your customer base to not feel like you just did a complete one ad right. And they're just like, Who the hell are these people? Why am I following them? 


Stephanie  49:49 

Right? you confuse people. I know we're wrapping up the only I only wanted to say one other thing. Go ahead to everyone, no matter where you're at your business, what you're struggling with what you're working on, please, please know that you do not have to do it by yourself. Right? So many entrepreneurs, we start and I was definitely one of them. And you feel like if you can't do it on your own, you're a failure. And that's just so not true. That's one of the biggest lies that we tell ourselves. We all have our zones of genius and you can't be a genius and everything. And so, you know, find those things that you're really great at and find the things that you're either not great at or that you freaking hate doing. And that's those are the things you need to start figuring out. What do I need to do to make sure I have the resources to outsource these pieces? So I mean, just you know, don't think you have to do it alone. You don't have to figure this all by yourself. You really don't. I mean, we're just not built for that. So you know, a Facebook group, find a community, find a coach, find, find people that can help you get there, you'll get there by yourself. Not saying you can't get there. It just might take you a lot longer and be a lot more exhausting. Have a process But it has to be true. I couldn't agree more. Well, that kind of brings us to the end. So Stephanie, is there anything else you want to add? or How can they follow you get more information about you to learn more about you? 


Stephanie  51:13 

I love this, it was so much fun I had a great time. Anybody that wants to find me Follow me reach out. Pretty much everything that I have out there is the same handle and that's That's my website, Facebook link, LinkedIn link and if you search that on Instagram, you will find me too. There's technically an underscore creative after it but if you put in more power to you all one word, you will find me I promise. If you are you know if you're a business owner and you want some help, or you want to try to you know, get some better insights on some branding tips. I also have a free Facebook group where we just share information and try to help each other grow and really focus on you know, branding and strategy, and supporting each other. It's called branding design and strategy.  


Julio  52:20 

So cool. Yeah, I highly recommend anybody. If you have any questions about branding and strategy and all that stuff, just please feel free to hit her up. She has a great website, and I've done my share of Facebook, stalking, and all that. So you know, great groups and Instagram and all that so, yeah, Stephanie. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time.

And that is a wrap. 

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